• Sign In
  • ACDA.org
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar
  • Skip to footer
ChoralNet

ChoralNet

The professional networking site for the global online choral community.

  • Home
  • Blog
  • ACDA News
  • Events
  • Community
    • Announcements
    • Classifieds

You are here: Home / Others / Interlude – Mindset

Interlude – Mindset

December 4, 2012 by Richard Sparks Leave a Comment


With the end of the semester and lots of “cleanup” to do, I’ll put my “Culture” series on hold and probably won’t post more until after the break (although you’ll see culture mentioned!). Here, part of an earlier blog post of mine on the concept of “mindset”:
 

Mindset

I’ve started reading an interesting book on learning & success: Mindset–The New Psychology of Success, by Carol Dweck (she’s a Psychologist at Stanford).
 
The basic premise is that there are two basic “mindsets” about learning (this came out of her research on how people cope with failure) and these affect profoundly how you lead your life: the fixed mindset sees tests and challenges as measuring your ability (which is fixed), whereas what she calls the growth mindset sees tests and challenges as ways to cultivate growth and change (and are not judgmental of your intelligence or talent). As she notes, Darwin and Tolstoy were considered ordinary children, Ben Hogan (one of the great golfers) was completely uncoordinated as a child, etc. In other words, genius doesn’t always show itself early (and we all know many prodigies burn out).
 
Dweck says, “Everyone is born with an intense drive to learn. Infants stretch their skills daily. Not just walk and talk. They never decide it’s too hard or not worth the effort. They walk, they fall, they get up. They just barge forward.”
 
Somewhere along the line, though, some children learn that they are being evaluated and become afraid of challenges (and paradoxically, continual praising children as being smart or supremely talented can lead to the fixed mindset).
 
She tells of a study where they offered four-year-olds the choice between redoing an easy jigsaw puzzle or trying a harder one. Even at this age, kids who had a fixed mindset–that is, they believed in fixed traits–chose the safe one. They told the researchers, kids who are born smart “don’t do mistakes.” The other children with a growth mindset–who believed you could get smarter–couldn’t imagine doing a puzzle they’d done before. One girl said, “I’m dying to figure them out!”
 
Again from Dweck, “So children with the fixed mindset want to make sure they succeed. Smart people should always succeed. But for children with the growth mindset, success is about stretching themselves. It’s about becoming smarter.”
 
What does this have to do with musicians and conductors?
 
In another story from the book (it’s an easy read) she tells of Nadja Solerno-Sonnenberg (one of the world’s great violinists) who was a child prodigy, making her debut with the Philadelphia Orchestra at age 10.
 
Yet when she arrived at Juilliard to study with Dorothy DeLay, the great violin teacher [teacher of Itzhak Perlman, among others], she had a repertoire of awful habits. Her fingerings and bowings were awkward and she held the violin in the wrong position, but she refused to change. After several years, she saw the other students catching up and even surpassing her, and by her late teens she had a crisis of confidence: ‘I was used to success, to the prodigy label in newspapers, and now I felt a failure.’
 
This prodigy was afraid of trying. ‘Everything I was going through boiled down to fear. Fear of trying and failing . . . if you go to an audition and don’t really try, if you’re not really prepared, if you didn’t work as hard as you could have and you don’t win, you have an excuse . . . Nothing is harder than saying, ‘I gave it my all and it wasn’t good enough.’
 
This haunted and paralyzed her. She had even stopped bringing her violin to her lesson!
 
Then one day, after years of patience and understanding, DeLay told her, ‘Listen, if you don’t bring your violin next week, I’m throwing you out of my class.’ Sonnenberg thought she was joking, but DeLay rose from the couch and calmly informed her, ‘I’m not kidding. If you are going to waste your talent, I don’t want to be a part of it. This has gone on long enough.’
 
The upshot was that Sonnenberg, who was terrified of losing DeLay, finally began working again. She says, “This is something I know for a fact: You have to work hardest for the things you love most. And when it’s music you love, you’re in for the fight of your life.”
 
You might have an idea where I’m headed with this now.
 
Talking to the grad students at UNT, I said, all of you are talented and have had some success (if you didn’t, you wouldn’t be here). Some of you have had a lot of success. You’ve succeeded on the basis of the (gestural) conducting skill you came in with, the rehearsal skills you came in with, the ear and analytical skills you came in with, the vocal skills you came in with, etc.
 
However, to really succeed, especially long-term, you have to be ready to give up past “successful” habits (like Sonnenberg’s way of holding the violin) and go through the struggle of taking away what is comfortable and do something new. This means you will be worse for awhile (a new gesture, new way of rehearsing) and feel awkward and uncomfortable. But unless you’re willing to go through that “failure,” you will cap how much you can grow and how much you can achieve.
 
I see this resistance to changing something you like, something you’re comfortable with all the time. I understand it. But you have to know that you’re hobbling yourself if you aren’t willing to struggle with something that is difficult. In a sense, you have to be willing to throw away anything from your past that may be getting in the way of your getting better.
 
From a personal perspective, I know that when I was an undergraduate, there were many people more “talented” than I am, with much more background. However, I have ended up where I am not because I’m more talented, or even because I worked harder–but because I have kept working and challenging myself in different ways and have been willing to change at any time, no matter how uncomfortable. This is still happening and my coming to UNT (back to academe) has allowed me to see certain things I do in a different light (from conducting technique to rehearsal technique to creating a certain “culture” in a choir) and begin to change them.
 
And I also know that if I look back at the big career decisions and changes in my life . . . that if I was scared of failure–if failure was a real possibility–that was when I grew most. When I took the position at PLU, Maurice Skones had been there 19 years and was very much a “guru” (and a wonderful musician as well). At the 1982 ACDA national conference, the PLU choir sang and Maury changed the last piece on his program to one of his signature pieces. My friend Bruce Browne, who was sitting with me, turned to me and said, “Maury’s leaving PLU–he just announced his swan song.” The next night a group of Northwest conductors got together for dinner and everyone was talking about Skones leaving PLU, with the consensus being, “I wouldn’t touch that job with a 10-foot pole–no one will succeed immediately following Maury.”
 
Of course, I ended up getting the job at age 33, with exactly three years of college teaching experience (although seven years experience with my Seattle Pro Musica groups, having conducted 40 or so of Bach’s cantatas, all of his major works, the Mozart Requiem and C Minor Mass, Beethoven Symphony #1, etc.). Failure was a frightening possibility (in fact, I asked the chair of the department point blank, “Are you looking for the next person to head the program or a sacrificial lamb?”), but the truth was, it resulted in enormous growth for me. I hadn’t conducted a choir that toured as this one did. I hadn’t done a huge amount of a cappella music (but more than most with orchestra). I hadn’t run a large choral program. I wasn’t from the Lutheran tradition. The choir had a large alumni base that was very curious (and skeptical!) of this unknown guy who had been chosen to follow Skones. All of this provided challenges where I could have failed. There were, of course, things that didn’t go well (especially at first), but what absolutely happened was that I grew enormously as a musician, teacher, and conductor.
 
It doesn’t mean we like failing (in fact, the dislike of it motivates us to work hard), but we’re willing to take the chance and also willing to “upset the applecart” over the short run to get better results over the long run.
 
So, my advice to the UNT grad students, “Please don’t take the safe road. Take on challenges of whatever kind you can. If you’re asked to change a conducting gesture or long-held (and perhaps cherished!) habit, rather than fighting it, figure out how you can do that, no matter how uncomfortable in the short run. Annoying (and scary) as it is, take video of yourself at every opportunity so you can really see what you look like and whether it helps or hinders. Challenge yourself to dig deeper into the scores you study. Think carefully about your rehearsal technique (or whether you really have one!) and be willing to change the way you do things. Challenge what you know about choral sound. Listen, listen, listen (and listen some more!) to other choirs and recordings, discuss important issues with each other, with me, with Dr. McCoy. Take books out of the library that no one is requiring you to read which stretch your knowledge of choral techniques, performance practice, a particular composer, etc., etc., etc.–and read them!”
 
An interesting book, indeed!
 

Filed Under: Others

Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. Richard Sparks says

    December 28, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    Thank you, Thomas.
    Log in to Reply
  2. Richard Sparks says

    December 6, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    Liz,
     
    Your “perfection vs. growth” post is an excellent one!
     
    I haven’t read Christopher Peterson’s work, so I’ll have to add it to the list.
     
    Self-talk is certainly an important element in success or failure. If you’d like to do a guest post about that, let me know.
     
    Thank you!
     
    Richard
    Log in to Reply
  3. Richard Sparks says

    December 6, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    Great post, John (shouldn’t you be blogging on ChoralNet?)! And, by the way, great and interesting story of your musical life.
     
    My story is differnt, of course, but similar in the sense that it didn’t follow an expected path. I think that many people who knew me at earlier points in my career wouldn’t have guessed that I’d end up doing what I’ve done in my (hmmm . . . shuffling of feet) 40+ year career.
     
    I was originally a music ed major–and similar to your experience with “testing and measurement” people–my education (not music education) courses were among the worst taught classes I ever took, particularly the statistics course.
     
    I took some time off from school after a choir tour to Europe in 1971 (my first time there) in order to travel around by myself (my visits included Wilhelm Ehmann’s church music school in Herford and seeing Rilling work with two different groups on two differnt weekends in Stuttgart, as well as time in Cambridge going to Evensong at King’s and St. John’s). The following summer I went to the Oregon Bach Festival (1972–the festival began in 1970, so I was there in the very early days, long before it was what it has become). I got my first church job in 1970, when I was 20, then another, much better church job 2 years later. That was the point at which I was student teaching. I had ideas, following on my European experiences and a passionate interest in early music, to start my own group. I did that in 1973, first a chamber choir, then the next year added a group called the Bach Ensemble that did Bach cantatas once a month. At the same time I decided not to finish my music ed degree because I thought, if I got a HS teaching job I wouldn’t have time to pursue leading those groups, and to do the kind of music I wanted to do.
     
    In that sense, it’s similar to my story in the post about getting the job at PLU and being willing, I suppose, to fail . . . or at least not to follow in the career path I’d set for myself. In that sense, much like you, John, my motivation and willingness to do things I wanted to do were the drivers, not a “career plan.”
     
    But it also has to do with curiousity and the willingness to follow that curiousity where it leads you.
     
    My undergraduate teacher/conductor/mentor was Rod Eichenberger, at the University of Washington during those same years. One of the things I’ve always admired about Rod is that he’s always remained curious. Any time (not often, of course) that I’ve visited with him over the years, his continued engagement and curiousity has always been an inspiration.
     
    For me, part of the reason my posts have been going in the direction they have is that I’ve been working at UNT with younger singers (not my Collegium group, but the Chamber Choir from my first 3 years here and now the University Singers this year), and in a way, the real fun of it for me is the challenge of looking freshly at the way I do things, the way I rehearse, the way I teach, and trying to figure out what will work best, how I can best give them the skills they need . . . in short, how to teach better. Particularly this year, with a 64-voice group, the challenge has been to find ways to make my students, as individuals, feel that their involvement and effort really do count. I haven’t had a regular group this size at any time (well, from 1990-94 I worked with the Seattle Symphony Chorale, but that’s a long time ago).
     
    I also agree with your last statement that changing students’ mindsets is difficult–whether it’s nature or nurture, we get them after so much about the way they look at and deal with the world is pretty well set. But I also would say that I wouldn’t be a teacher if I didn’t think there was some chance to both change those things and to make a real difference in my students’ lives.
     
    Thanks so much for your insights!
     
    All best,
     
    Richard
    Log in to Reply
  4. thomas Coker says

    December 6, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    Thank you for the terrific blog, Richard, and John, it is good to know more of your journey.  I have appreciated your previous insights.
    Log in to Reply
  5. John Howell says

    December 6, 2012 at 9:53 am

    Richard and Friends:  I’ve learned not to trust anything that starts with the statement, “There are two kinds of people”!!!  And academic psychologists, like any other academics, face a lot of pressure to publish and to get publications on their resumes, so they are always looking for topics to write about.
     
    But with that said, I’ve had plenty of real-world experience with the kinds of mindsets she and you mention.  I suspect that we’ve ALL watched very talented students who weren’t willing to work lose out on solos or assignments they really wanted–and even felt entitled to–when someone with less talent but a stronger work ethic put in the work that it took to surpass not only the talented ones but their own expectations and perceived limitations.  And I’m not talking about giving an “A for Effort,” although that happens as well, but about people willing to push their own limits and discovering that they weren’t limits in the first place!
     
    When I was at Indiana, it was well known that one of the trumpet professors specialized in completely breaking down his students’ technique and rebuilding it from scratch, which has to be a REALLY scary thing for a student who was good enough to get into that school in the first place, but the ones who were willing to do it ended up having far surpassed any limits they originally thought that they had. 
     
    But I can tell you where I HAVE run into the kind of thinking you describe, and that’s with people who specialize in “testing and measurement.”  When I first ran into their institutional mindset I was flabergasted, and couldn”t believe that people actually throught that way, but in fact they DO!  These are people for whom (a) testing has nothing to do with teaching or learning, and is done only to separate students from one another; (b) the ideal assessment is one that has a mean score of 50%, allowing finer distinctions among students; and (c) objective testing and evaluation is not only possible but can be absolutely accurate.
     
    I disagree STRONGLY with every one of those assumptions.  My quizzes and exams are an EXTENSION of my teaching–a continuation that challenges students to actually — USE what I hope they’ve learned rather than just parroting it back.  I have NEVER, EVER “curved” grades in any academic class, and I never will.  (A single statistics course provides quite sufficient reason to believe that doing so is an unrealistic exercise, since the students in any given class are NEVER randomly chosen subjects from the general population!)  Every student in any of my classes can earn an A or B, with emphasis on the word “earn.”  They can also all flunk.  That they often end up curving themselves is their problem, not mine, and simply measures the importance they consider my classes to have as individuals.  And when we deal with subjective learning–which in fact includes almost ALL learning since there is NO way to measure what happens inside anyone’s head, just what they end up DOING when asked to act on it–we are fooling ourselves if we think we can measure it objectively or accuarately.
     
    But I can tell you what I HAVE observed, up close and personal.  We are presented with choices–unexpected new possibilities–throughout our lives.  I certainly have been.  When I was in high school I knew exactly what I wanted to do and had a perfectly fine plan for making it happen.  And everyone NEEDS to have both goals and plans for achieving those goals.  But what can NOT be predicted is unexpected opportunities, and when one of those opens up I’ve seen two diametrically opposed reactions to it.  There are people whose response is, “Why not?  Why not give it a try and just see what happens?”  And there are other people whose response is, “Why?  Why try something new, unplanned, and unpredictable?”  (It amounts to the old question of whether the glass is half empty or half full.)
     
    Apparently I’m one of the former, and if I hadn’t been I wouldn’t be where I am today and I wouldn’t be the person I am today.  Nor would I be in a position to give positive advice to the students I have the privilege of teaching.  But 20 years of my several careers was as a full time, professional entertainer (NOT in my original goals!), with a barbershop quartet that I actually started in junior high school, which turned into a vocal/instrumental/comedy Act that earned great respect within the business and pretty good money without ever getting that one big break that would have made “The Four Saints” a household word.  But our original 1st tenor dropped out while we were still on scholarship in college, because his own goals were to become a lawyer and eventually a judge (which in fact he actually did), so when we had an opportunity to take a leap of faith and drop out of school to work with a member of The Sportsmen Quartet and break into the VERY lowest ranks of show business he balked and could not make that leap of faith.
     
    In the event, that meant that it took me 12 years to finish my undergrad degree, picking up one course at a time whenever I could, which allows me to talk with students who simply HAVE to graduate in 4 years.  And since at that time we all had a military obligation it also meant serving 4 years as a small entertainment unit within the U.S. Air Force Band, which took us all over the world and gave us four years to prepare for full time professional entertaining.  And when I finally got off the road and into grad school, I chose a choral conducting degree (and doctoral work in musicology) not because I was a choral fanatic, but because I figured that the two kinds of people who had to UNDERSTAND music the best were the musicologists who spent their lives studying it and the conductors who spent their lives bringing it to life.  Another leap of faith with absolutely NO guarantee of a job, but one that has paid off in (of course!) completely unexpected ways.
     
    So can we, as teachers, conductors, and mentors actually change students’ mindsets?  Probably not.  But that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth trying.
    All the best,
    John
    Log in to Reply
  6. Liz Garnett says

    December 6, 2012 at 5:12 am

    I had this book on my mental ‘to read’ list a while back, but didn’t get round to it. Thanks for the reminder – it is back on there now! I’ll be interested to see how the mindset ideas cross-reference with the sports psychology ideas of self-talk as an enabling or inhibiting factor in skill development. There are resonances with Christopher Peterson’s work on attribution theory too, and the effect that beliefs about the source of success have on choir recruitment and retention.
     
    I blogged a couple of years back about a related dynamic within the process of individual practice: http://www.helpingyouharmonise.com/perfection_growth
     
     
     
     
    Log in to Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

  • ACDA.org
  • The ChoralNet Daily Newsletter

Advertise on ChoralNet

Footer

Connect with us!

  • Home
  • About
  • Help
  • Contact Us
  • ACDA.org

Recent Blogs

  • The Conductor as Yogi:  A Different View of the Candle at Both Ends
  • Choral Ethics: Don’t Shoot the Piano Player
  • Choral Ethics: What is Choral Ethics?
  • Choral Ethics: April is Autism Awareness Month
  • Choral Ethics: Almost There

American Choral Directors Association

PO Box 1705
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
73101-1705

© 2026 American Choral Directors Association. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy