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Are women’s choirs different?

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I have a friend who sings in a women’s choir, and after their conductor/den mother died of breast cancer, they got in a new conductor who has, shall we say, an XY chromosome. I have commented that that must have changed the family feel of the group somehow, but my friend has always denied that.
 
But The Choir Girl asserts that it does make a difference:
The most entertaining thing, however, is the fact that within a women’s choir, we forget how much female talk occurs during rehearsal. This was extremely apparent with a male conductor was in the room. The first instance came about when a chorister announced that she, too, would be unable to tour to Italy with the rest of the choir in July. The reason? Her baby was due that summer.
 Another extremely funny comment that came up in choir last week was when a low-singing alto lamented the fact that she had to sing a high G in one of the madrigals. Since madrigals are often pieces which depict the censored details of frolicking of young lovers in the springtime, we all cracked up laughing when she simply stated that orgasm or not, she can’t hit a high G.
Liz Garnett recalls telling a choir of college women that an expressive passage sounded like “period pain,” evidently scandalizing their XY conductor.
 
What do you think? Is there a special cameraderie that women’s choirs have? I’ll never know from personal experience.

Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. (Sister-conductor here! :::waving wildly)
     
    Another dynamic here can come into play when working with young or college-aged women’s choruses…when dealing with an age group where (to admittedly draw a generalization) one is apt to run into issues with body-image and -acceptance, there are things a woman conductor can address that, let’s face it, a male conductor would have to be very careful about bringing up. Torso placement among girls or young women who have been unconsciously (or consciously)  hunching their shoulders forward to hide What’s There since junior high…refusal to let the midsection expand as freely as necessary for healthy breathing due to a lifetime of sucking in our bellies because that’s what our moms told us to do…
     
    Obviously, there is a very definite line between appropriate and inappropriate here as well, but it’s in a very different place for a woman conductor than for a man. IMO. Anyone have any more direct experience with this?
     
    (For the record, no, I have never referred to menstrual cramps with my college choruses, though now that you mention it, it’s a fairly good metaphor for some of the sounds I’ve heard!)
    Jennifer
     
     

  2.  There is no such thing as an XY chromosome. Men have one X and one Y chromosome (usually). Women have two X chromosomes (usually) and no Y chromosome.

  3. Goodness, gracious–where are my Sister-Conductors? 
     
    I have directed both SATB and women–my first professional job was at a Roman Catholic Girls School.  My Midwest Motet Society also has occassional times we only do SSA or SSAA music–not too often because I really like SATB!
     
    There is a different vibe and a camraderie and an openess.  We are frank with each other.  I would also suggest that it is the same way with women musicians, with each other, in general.  One of my best friends, the late Sharon Rogers, was an accompaniest and piano teacher (my son studied with her from the time he was 8 until her death).  We would meet for coffee and would start out talking about Bartok, veer off to our husband and kids (and complaining about the kids not doing their own laundry)and end up talking about Mozart.  She had about ten pairs of black pants she used when she performed and I understood perfectly why she did since I have about that many black tops and bottoms to conduct in.  I miss her very, very much since “civilians” don’t quite understand our lives and we slipped between musician/wife/mother/sister/daughter with ease with each other.  And how we found time to practice in a multi-leveled life was much discussed. 
     
    To suggest  you fellows don’t understand may be unfair but……..I love singing with other women, in a group and in trios or quartets.  We take turns, offer to sing a part if someone can’t or ask someone else to sing the high C or low G if we don’t feel comfortable.  And our sister-singers will do it for us, just as we will for them.
     
    Yes, pregnancy will be discussed openly because it affects the timing of concerts and events–how could it not? I was suppose to sing a “Messiah” the year my youngest was born, in fact, the day before my due date.  I thought I could do it, but as the fall went along, I was more and more miserable.  I announced to the director at a rehearsal in November–I couldn’t help it– I felt I was ready to pop and  that I was carrying the baby around my knees so I didn’t think I could do the concert.  The men of the group looked weird at me but the women were supportive and understood what I was talking about and laughed.  And it was funny.
     
    Have a good Holy Saturday and a Blessed Easter.  This was fun to think about.
     
    Marie Grass Amenta, founder and music director
    the Midwest Motet Society

  4.  Having directed a mixed chorus for 12 years (plus mixed church choirs) and a community women’s chorus for 10, I feel qualified to weigh in on this discussion. For the record, I am the proud owner of an XY chromosome and am in my mid sixties (with a mental outlook of mid twenties). My general feeling about social interaction in both types of chorus is this. When things are going well, the sense of group involvement and caring for one another is much stronger in a women’s chorus than in mixed. There is less competition in the women’s chorus for parts or attention. However, in my experience, when things go off the rails, they go off much more strongly in a women’s chorus than a mixed chorus. I am happy to say that with the departure of the dissident faction, my women’s chorus is back on track and even more helpful and caring about each other than before.
     
    Regarding the language used and the topics covered at break – yes, it’s surprisingly frank and often quite risque. Who cares!! They kid me and I kid them and rarely, if ever, has any kind of line been crossed.
     
    Bill Paisner
    Director, Southwest Women’s Chorus

  6. Hi, Allen.  I’m afraid your chromosome reference is a bit over my head, not knowing whether you’re referring simply to a male conductor or to someone’s sexual orientation.  (I know, if you have to explain it, it isn’t funny!)
     
    But to speak to your actual question, yes, a women’s ensemble is VERY different from either a mixed ensemble or a men’s ensemble.  As you suggested, not only the social interaction but the use of language can be quite difference.  I’m not one of those “women are from venus and men are from mars” people, but are they different?  You betchum!!!  Even the suggestive references in speech are quite different (and would never be spoken aloud in a mixed group).
     
    How do I know?  For several years I directed a traditionally all-female show ensemble at a university.  It had been founded as the women’s equivalent for the men’s glee club, back in the ’50s, and had continued under that taffeta and harp kind of approach until I took it over.  I brought it up to date musically (as of the mid-’70s) and replace the piano, harp and flute with a 6-piece showband.
     
    I also directed a Sweet Adelines barbershop chorus for a couple of years, a very good (and very illuminating) experience.  I was strictly a hired hand.  In fact, while I was welcome at conferences and workshops, I could not become a member because no men were allowed.  And again (and in fact even moreso because these were grown women and not at all intimidated by having a professor in charge), the sociology and the inner dynamic is VERY different.  And yes, I believe that that dynamic changes depending on the gender of he conductor. 
     
    I do think that men of my generation are easily shocked by the openness with which women discus certain biological things among themselves, things that men by themselves would never bring up at all!  And in turn, I think that women can be shocked by the crudity of some men and the language they use.  Of course there’s a difference!  And a good conductor will realize that and use it to obtain excellent musical results.
     
    All the best,
    John
     
     

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